[georss] [Mass-Market-GEO] OpenSearch Geo - Feedback

[Ron Lake]

Hi Sean:

Thanks for the response.  That is helpful.  I agree that OGC stuff got
started in the DOM/CORBA days - however all of the services that start
with the letter W (e.g. WFS, WMS, WRS etc) were conceived in the post
CORBA/DCOM era.  I would agree that there is some unstated flavor of DCP
independence in the discussion as of course there is in WSDL (which you
may feel is un-web like?) - I don't think there is much discussion
explicit or implicit of OGC services over anything but IP networks - so
the transports are really down to HTTP, SMTP at most.  I would NOT say
that OGC services are intended to be RPC-like, nor would I say that they
necessarily assume high availability nor minimal latency - quite the
contrary.  Of course the web is infinitely more reliable and latencies
are often quite minimal compared to the situation in the 90's.

You say that in the web " hypertext as the engine of application state"
- what do you mean by that?

R

-----Original Message-----
From: georss-bounces at lists.eogeo.org
[mailto:georss-bounces at lists.eogeo.org] On Behalf Of Sean Gillies
Sent: October 10, 2007 9:47 AM
To: georss at lists.eogeo.org
Subject: Re: [georss] [Mass-Market-GEO] OpenSearch Geo - Feedback

Ron,

I think Pete Lacey's recent post about new taxonomic terms might be 
handy here:

http://wanderingbarque.com/nonintersecting/2007/10/08/towards-a-better-n
etwork-programming-taxonomy/

Services that are "for the web" are what Lacey calls network-oriented 
computing. These take into account the latency and unreliability of the 
web. They also embrace the constraints of the web: URLs, hypertext as 
the engine of application state, and a very limited set of semantics for

accessing resources (GET, PUT, POST, DELETE).

OGC services are what Lacey would call network-indepedent computing 
(NIC) in that they attempt to abstract away the network. They try to 
provide equivalent interfaces across a bunch of "DCP Types", of which 
HTTP is just one. It's also my understanding that the OGC services had 
their origins in the CORBA/DCOM mindset of the 90s, back when a lot of 
enterprises were still skeptical about the Web.

Sean

Ron Lake wrote:
> Jason et al:
> 
> One thing that would help in these discussions is to understand what
one
> means when we say "for the web".  Clearly all OGC services are
intended
> to function on the web and do to transactions, interact with one
another
> etc across the Internet.  Do you mean a particular suite of
applications
> "on the web" ?  How are these applications distinguished?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Ron
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: georss-bounces at lists.eogeo.org
> [mailto:georss-bounces at lists.eogeo.org] On Behalf Of Jason Cupp
> Sent: October 10, 2007 3:52 AM
> To: georss at lists.eogeo.org
> Subject: Re: [georss] [Mass-Market-GEO] OpenSearch Geo - Feedback
> 
> Mass-market WWW began as static HTML pages... now it's AJAX, HTTP
> services, etc... it evolves. Our realization and use of the Web
changes
> overtime in re-re-re-interpretation of REST principals and whatever
> comes next. 
> 
> CSW was just right for it's time. Is it wrong for the Web NOW? Maybe,
> that's why we have working groups. Is OpenSearch right for the Web 20
> years from now? Maybe... maybe not. Can discovering GIS resources work
> using CSW. Yes. Should we try to gain greater appeal by adopting more
> suitable (accepted today) technology? Most think so. Would OpenSearch
do
> the trick? That's what we're trying to figure out...
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Charlie Savage [mailto:cfis at savagexi.com] 
> Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 6:08 PM
> To: Jason Cupp
> Cc: georss at lists.eogeo.org
> Subject: Re: [georss] [Mass-Market-GEO] OpenSearch Geo - Feedback
> 
> Hi Jason,
> 
>> Everyone is struggling to get a web search API just right for their
>> users;  CSW suffers the same way that all OGC services do in the
> growing
>> REST spotlight. For -which- web at -which- time, a moving target,
> until
>> people start getting real work done on top of it.
> 
> Let me cordially disagree with your comment about the web.  I only see

> one web - what other web are you seeing?
> 
> Also, I'm not sure what you mean by -which- time?  And I'm sure I
don't 
> understand your comment about "start getting real work done on top of 
> it."  On top of the web?  Really?
> 
> Charlie
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