[georss] WAS: GeoRSS Validation Service? RETURNING TO:multiplelocations and time

Thu Mar 1 16:00:02 EST 2007

HI ,

Since GeoRSS is based on GML there is clearly a well defined "extension"
path by adding in more GML geometry or other types (time, dynamic
features, observations) as required.

R

________________________________

From: georss-bounces at lists.eogeo.org
[mailto:georss-bounces at lists.eogeo.org] On Behalf Of Carl Reed OGC
Account
Sent: March 1, 2007 12:57 PM
To: Peter Borissow; Knoth, Brian D.; Mikel Maron; Andrew Turner
Cc: georss at lists.eogeo.org
Subject: Re: [georss] WAS: GeoRSS Validation Service? RETURNING
TO:multiplelocations and time

I believe that Peter and I are saying the same thing - provide best
practice guidance on how to do extensions to GeoRSS GML without breaking
the GeoRSS simplicity goal.

Regards

Carl

	----- Original Message ----- 

	From: Peter Borissow <mailto:peter.borissow at yahoo.com>  

	To: Knoth, Brian D. <mailto:bknoth at mitre.org>  ; Mikel Maron
<mailto:mikel_maron at yahoo.com>  ; Andrew Turner
<mailto:georss at highearthorbit.com>  

	Cc: georss at lists.eogeo.org 

	Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 10:56 AM

	Subject: Re: [georss] WAS: GeoRSS Validation Service? RETURNING
TO: multiplelocations and time

	One man's metadata is another man's data - it's all a matter of
perspective.

	I'm all for keeping things simple. 

	In fact, what can be simpler - the GeoRSS spec can say something
like "we support gml geometries - use whatever gml geometry you want.
Here are some examples. Please refer to the gml spec for more
information."

	So the question still stands - why not support the full set of
gml geometries? Because it's too complicated? Because you're afraid that
clients will shy away from georss if it gets any more complicated? I'm
new to the group so I just don't understand the logic.

	That said, I'll settle for at least multipoint, multiline, and
multipolygon :)

	Peter

	----- Original Message ----
	From: "Knoth, Brian D." <bknoth at mitre.org>
	To: Peter Borissow <peter.borissow at yahoo.com>; Mikel Maron
<mikel_maron at yahoo.com>; Andrew Turner <georss at highearthorbit.com>
	Cc: georss at lists.eogeo.org
	Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2007 3:38:23 PM
	Subject: RE: [georss] WAS: GeoRSS Validation Service? RETURNING
TO: multiple locations and time

	Peter,

	As much as I agree with the need for multiple location
representations for an item, I'm finding it difficult to understand the
need for such a broad spectrum of geometric shapes for representing a
position. Just wondering if you could maybe give an example of a
position that needs a more complicated geospatial representation than
what is already there. I'm not sure right now what it means to be "at a
line segment or at a polygon or circle" for those already in there.
Feel free to respond directly to me if you'd like to take it offline.
Thanks,

	brian

________________________________

		From: Peter Borissow [mailto:peter.borissow at yahoo.com] 
		Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2007 9:15 AM
		To: Mikel Maron; Andrew Turner; Knoth, Brian D.
		Cc: georss at lists.eogeo.org
		Subject: Re: [georss] WAS: GeoRSS Validation Service?
RETURNING TO: multiple locations and time

		Great Idea!

		Here's another question you might consider adding - one
that I haven't found the answer for:

		Why doesn't GeoRSS support the full range of GML
geometries?

		Thanks,

		Peter

		----- Original Message ----
		From: Mikel Maron <mikel_maron at yahoo.com>
		To: Andrew Turner <georss at highearthorbit.com>; "Knoth,
Brian D." <bknoth at mitre.org>
		Cc: georss at lists.eogeo.org
		Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2007 8:45:03 AM
		Subject: Re: [georss] WAS: GeoRSS Validation Service?
RETURNING TO: multiple locations and time

		Nice initiative, to pull the discussions into more
referencible artifacts. 
		My concern is that an html faq page may quickly grow
stale, and that not everyone has access to it.
		Perhaps we could have an "FAQ" category on the blog, and
focus artifacting there. Or maybe in trac?

		----- Original Message ----
		From: Andrew Turner <georss at highearthorbit.com>
		To: "Knoth, Brian D." <bknoth at mitre.org>
		Cc: georss at lists.eogeo.org
		Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2007 1:38:44 PM
		Subject: Re: [georss] WAS: GeoRSS Validation Service?
RETURNING TO: multiple locations and time

		On 2/27/07, Knoth, Brian D. <bknoth at mitre.org> wrote:
		> Peter,
		>
		> In any regard, I did not make any progress with this
argument here
		> (even after receiving a favorable vote for the
capability). So, like
		> you, we will need to abandon geoRSS in favor of a more
expressive
		> implementation.
		>

		There are many ideas and needs that come across GeoRSS
that fail to
		make it into the standard for whatever reason.

		What seems beneficial is to maintain a FAQ or history of
		requests/proposals, their outcomes, and reasonings. And
finally, if it
		is not accepted *into* the standard, what people that
are working
		outside the 'standard' are all adopting.

		That way, if/when the discussion comes up again, we can
point to the
		'best suggested alternative' that others are using.
Others running
		into the same issue can use the common solution - and
anyone building
		tools can try and accommodate these cases.   And if that
feature does
		make it into the standard, everyone that was using that
ad-hoc
		solution can make the same transformation into the new
standard (which
		would have accounted for what people have been doing in
the meantime).

		This was illustrated by the Geonames discussion.
Location names was
		deemed to not make it into GeoRSS, so everyone that
needed it is using
		the Geonames namespace for location names.

		I've started to put these up on a FAQ page if that's ok:
		http://georss.org/faq.html
		Andrew

		On 2/28/07, Knoth, Brian D. <bknoth at mitre.org> wrote:
		> Josh,
		>
		> If by Give-and-Take, you mean that I should go off and
implement my own
		> extension(s) or utilize some combination of existing
extensions for
		> time windows and locations (while providing a loose
referential linking
		> between them) to support what I need, then I feel I
have been very
		> accommodating this. These are the suggestions that
I've received and
		> I'm being forced to accept them because my original
recommendation to
		> this mailing list of simply allowing the GML
representation of space
		> with time in the geoRSS profile has been discarded.
		>
		> I just don't understand how an extension whose main
purpose which is to
		> represent location (ie, geoRSS:where) can ignore the
fact that stuff is
		> at a place at a specific time, usually for a period of
time, and then
		> at some other place for other period of time. This
fact just seems so
		> basic that to ignore it seriously limits the
applicability of geoRSS to
		> anything more than possibly just the world of
blogging. GE does a great
		> job of activating and deactivating things that are
outside of their
		> time windows when TimePeriods are specified in KML.
I've heard some
		> unsubstantiated rumors that GE may support geoRSS in
the future - if
		> that is the case, shouldn't the hooks at least be
inserted into geoRSS
		> now to begin preparing for that usage?
		>
		> So you are absolutely correct...I can build
proprietary extensions and
		> mechanisms for supporting this in our RSS feeds. I
have felt, and still
		> strongly do feel, that the proper place for this is
within a maturing
		> RSS extension such as geoRSS which, hopefully for its
own adoption
		> sake, can provide the building blocks necessary to
support
		> functionality required by not only the Flikrs and
blogs, but also
		> Enterprise RSS as well.
		>
		> VR
		> brian
		> _______________________________________________
		> georss mailing list
		> georss at lists.eogeo.org
		> http://lists.eogeo.org/mailman/listinfo/georss
		>

		-- 
		Andrew Turner
		ajturner at highearthorbit.com        42.4266N x 83.4931W
		http://highearthorbit.com <http://highearthorbit.com/>
Northville, Michigan, USA
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